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how easy is it to crack a carbon frame
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how easy is it to crack a carbon frame

And carbon fiber? Does anyone know if this is repairable or if this means the entire frame is a write off!! Seam and weld cracks are relatively easy to fix. A common, and scary, place that frames crack is the underside of the down tube, just behind the headtube. Markus Storck, lead engineer and owner of German carbon frame powerhouse Storck Bicycles, told me at a conference about 3 months ago that the best ways to tell if a frame is cracked are movement and time. In fact, carbon fiber is one of the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered by a 10 year warranty. Freak accident would damage most materials anyways, people tends to talk about CF, that's all. Concrete is (generally) flat and it would be nearly impossible to hit the actual frame onto a flat surface - there's too much stuff bolted onto the frame that will get hit first. Yes, the resin gets old so if you produce it too much and it gets old, and that too is simply dumped into the ocean. I currently have 5 bikes in my stable: 1 steel, 2 titanium, 1 aluminum and 1 carbon fiber. Welding across the the frame is likely to produce cracks over time. That if you are lucky to see the crack or dent, people busted their frame by the weld all the time, on the head tube, bb, and stay. If you want to do that get heavy duty carbon frame check out SC V10C, or GT furyC:thumbsup: I don't know if you've ever done the 'tap test' but it is blatantly different to even a tone deaf person when you hit on a spot that is bad. More suitable techniques for welding frame pieces together make the joint much stronger so as to avoid further breakage. If you look at the BMC website and their carbon care page, you’ll see this: “On superlight frames, the tubes can be slightly deformed with pressure from your fingers. Carbon bike builders want you to buy new frames when you break one. Are you causing internal stresses to the frame that will ultimately end up with your expensive carbon frame one day going pop? Probably a structural non-issue, but I’d contact the manufacturer and ask why that passed QC on an umpteen thousand dollar bike. “We just about never see a failure or fatigue. June 2011 edited September 2011 in Workshop. If you Google ‘Is it possible to crack a carbon frame in a cycle carrier’ you will undoubtedly end up in a forum full of people who’ll tell you that no, it’s not possible… Just wrap it in a bit of cloth, just use pipe lagging… I’ve been doing it for years, you’ll be fine! Inconsistencies lead to cracks and frame failures. The use of carbon fiber in the frame of the BMW i3 has many worried about high repair costs. Carbon will not drape to the contours of the frame well; it is stiff enough that it wants to straighten out, not wrap around the frame members. Carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls. Same thing at the headtube and the seat cluster. The Easy Start kit is for making a shape out of carbon fiber using a mold. What’s worse is that when carbon fiber fails, it fails spectacularly. 2 JavaScript is disabled. Carbon fiber is composed of thin carbon filaments that are bound together with a plastic polymer resin to form a composite material. BMW gives us an inside look at why it won't be so bad. Originally Posted by bad mechanic. What would let you find an internal defect? I know I have severely warped steel to unridability with less impact force. m). Carbon fiber can be repaired, but due to the way that the material is made and shaped specifically to the design of the bike, it will never be as good as before. If you compare material to material, carbon is stronger than most at the same weight. Are you riding into the corners of brick walls on a regular basis? 165 Dalegarth way, Broughton, Milton Keynes, MK10 7BG Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist's worst nightmare! A) The Composite. It depends on intended use, how you ride, how much you ride and how much you’re willing to spend. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. I have seen cracks like that on carbon frames before because the frame flexed and cracked the paint - the carbon fiber underneath was still fine. However, this adhesive-backed film is as easy to apply as a sticker. I also have a Carbon Road bike that I have crashed a few times and has a major paint chip out of it, but is still structurally sound. Our take. Dear Lennard, I read your “Carbon in the Sun” article. Our take. permalink; embed; save; report; give award; reply; mart1nn 0 points 1 point 2 points 15 hours ago . It is in the worst possible place. Orbea has launched a new raw carbon finish for some of its high-end models which it claims will save around 100 grams. It's a myth that carbon can't be repaired. Since you're out of warranty anyway, you might want to remove the cracked paint and see what the material underneath looks like. Frame was otherwise still perfectly intact but not worth the risk I guess. If this one isn’t found in time, the result is usually catastrophic failure and a trip to the dentist (at best). Can carbon be fixed? it's just as bad. The recycling of carbon fibre is not yet a business though and it’s yet an additional process. So I was cleaning my bike on sunday ready for a ride on monday and I noticed a crack in the carbon fibre on my seat stay!! Q: Will I lose frame strength by not compressing? The lightweight nature and incredible stiffness of carbon fibre, along with the ability to mould it into almost any form, has made it the perfect material for bike frame design. While this … It has the look and texture of actual carbon fiber. Received a frame yesterday and on inspection today found a series of thin cracks around the top tube/seat tube joint (integrated seat tube). In essence you might be fine clamping a carbon frame once twice, or even a thousand times… BUT do you know what damage you’re doing to your frame internally? The 200mm-travel Sequence uses carbon for both its front and rear triangles, and Yordanov worked with UK's Easy Composites to manufacture the frame from start to finish. Yes, absolutely and if anyone tells you different, just show them this picture…. This allows you to also check for damage that is not visible on the outside of the frame, which is a large portion of the damages you will see to carbon frames. Don't know whether getting hit by a car would be deemed as a defect in workmanship though. Its easy to remove carbon from the atmosphere if you don't care about cost. But I needed to add carbon fiber to an existing structure. Once you hit expected ultimate strength, the fatigue … Inspect the area every time you stop. If the frame develops a crack, this will become the weakest point in the frame and will cause extra stress which will eventually cause the tubing to crack … Is this a crack on the carbon frame? Car frame repair cost can be expensive, and may not be worth it. Your email address will not be published. Carbon fiber parts should be considered disposable or consumable, like a Bic lighter! Crack suddenly appeared above the rear axle dropout on one of my bikes. If I were refused a replacement with your frame, I wouldn't be upset. Carbon Fiber Vinyl Film . This video shows the basics of carbon fiber lay up, step by step for vacuum bagging. to break a cf frame you really have to smack the frame hard. Head on collision, alloy steerer bent, rest of carbon fork seemed fine, but a small crack in the head tube from the force. |, Your email address will not be published. Can carbon be fixed? We’re here to say you don’t have to. Simply cut it to size, peel, and stick. Is it a crack probably caused by the saddle pressure? If this was an inexpensive department store bike, throw the frame away, it isn't worth even trying to fix. Carbon fiber bicycles are becoming increasingly popular now that improved techniques in manufacturing have brought the prices down. What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? So without anymore information, I would say you have a crashed frame with frame failure. Is this a crack on the carbon frame? Many thanks to for the image , Pingback: What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? You could see a visible crack. Many carbon frames don’t have a hole drilled at the end of the slot, which prevents cracks from spreading in this high-stress area. Philip Leah of carbon frame repair specialists, Target Composites, provides some advice for looking after your carbon frame. Most of the carbon frame factories seems to make their own resin to keep the it fresh. It has a Lite side and a Dark side and it holdz the Universe together. Repairing a Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frame: One fine morning I was riding up the mountain and I guess I was pedaling too hard or something. High-strength low-alloy steel (HSLA) is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel.HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they are not made to meet a specific chemical composition but rather specific mechanical properties. Is the weave slowly being pushed further and further apart? There are carbon recycling methods though. 07-29-2009 #10. macming. Hello folks Opinion on this if you can please. Treat a modern carbon frame well and there should be limited potential for degradation over a bike’s working life. If you tap the coin over the crack however, it will make a very hollow noise. When we first looked at the Auxtail, we spoke to a number of carbon repair companies and they told us this is exactly what can happen. While this is normal, please avoid excessive or repeated pressure because this could lead to damages.”,, So, on the one hand we have perceived wisdom telling us it’s fine to clamp away and on the other we have a manufacturer telling us that finger pressure alone is enough to deform a frame…, But it’s this that is the most telling: “avoid excessive or repeated pressure because this could lead to damages.”. 1. REGISTERED IN ENGLAND Company No. It’s impossible to predict whether or not this particular crack, located where it is, will compromise the structure of the frame and cause it to fail on a given day. :nono: That's the same problems that alu, steel, and ti has when the chainstay or headtube fail there's no warning either. But then you look at the manufacturers website and they say things along the lines of: Carbon frames are NOT designed to be clamped in a stand or a cycle carrier. In fact, carbon fiber is one of the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered by a 10 year warranty. Required fields are marked *. (But still pricey.) rolf_f Posts: 15,960. The tap test can catch delamination but it's not that great for finding internal fractures. So, if you dented the frame, finish the ride, but do so carefully. A: Yes: uncompressed carbon will not laminate completely to itself nor to the other plies. Where the paint has chipped away, you can see a crack in the fiberglass. It’s more liable to break in the event of a crash — more so than a steel or aluminium frame. Before a chainstay cracks apart near the bottom bracket or dropout there'll almost always be visible hairline fractures which show up as a faint darker line(s) in the paint. Definitely an easy test for someone to do on their own. Car accidents can result in frame damage, or unibody damage to your vehicle. Carbon fiber can't be melted down, and it's not easy to recycle. We will not work on any steel frame bike with a carbon fiber seatpost because carbon fiber seatposts are forbidden in steel frames due to the pinching force of the clamp. The top (visible) layer is four-harness satin carbon cloth, Hercules AS4 (370 g/sq. Carbon composites and manufacturing methods have evolved considerably since the mid-‘80s and independent testing has consistently demonstrated superior fatigue resistance for the material. Just don't use your XC carbon frame to do FR/DH riding you should be fine. Major bicycle brand flagship models are usually equipped with carbon fiber frames. A repaired headtube-downtube junction. Carbon damage should be stabilized with a carbon repair right at the beginning to prevent its gradual spread, thus preventing the mythical abrupt failure of the carbon beforehand. Because of the location and severity of this crack, we need to get access to the underside of the fender. Ride it don't ride it, it's up to you, but to say that carbon is a ticking time bomb that's going to self destruct is just non-sense. But any damage, including to the paintwork, needs to be looked at. They were welded by MIG with CO2 shielding, no pre or post weld heat treat. Trying to find out if i need to replace the entire frame or if i could get the crack repaired and without breaking the bank! Carbon frames seldom dent – they just snap. There is a small crack in the top tube of the frame. With a frame, there’s a lot of surface area to work with, but there are limitations. I accept that my given data and my IP address is sent to a server in the USA only for the purpose of spam prevention through the Akismet program.More information on Akismet and GDPR. And while I’m not entirely sure, my guess is this myth began as a legitimate concern when carbon frames were in their infancy (~25 years ago). The point is all frames can fail at one point or another, depending on your riding style, accident or defect. While there’s every possibility you could clamp your frame a thousand times without a problem… There’s also a possibility you could crack your frame tomorrow. Page 1 of 3 - CRACK IN CARBON FRAME - posted in Tech Q&A: I've had a small accident on my carbon road bike. It is a very distinct noise. There is a small crack in the top tube of the frame. Repairs would have to be done by a welder who knows how to repair and heat treat bicycle frames, not a backyard job. Then, after the ride, send the frame to a … Isn’t it worth keeping that gorgeous carbon safe? Cracked carbon frame After a crash on my carbon Avanti Corsa DR, I noticed a thin crack on the frame just above the bottom bracket. When it is recycled, the recycled carbon fiber isn't as strong as it was before recycling. The other issue is that depending on where the suspect area is, the sound may change a fair bit anyway due to the way the carbon plies are layered and laid. Treat a modern carbon frame well and there should be limited potential for degradation over a bike’s working life. Not that all teenagers are evil mind, just most of them. Its definitely cracked, about 30mm long with a deep chip in the carbon. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Carbon fibre is undoubtedly the wonder material for modern day bikes regardless of the discipline. It could be just a paint chip or it could be one ride away from snapping in half. Made of woven carbon fibers sealed within epoxy resin, carbon frames are both strong and light. The carbon pieces themselves however, remained undamaged. Even if you had a chunky aluminum frame, it is easy to save a pound or two with the ... the weakest points. Im repairing a cracked cannondale scalpel right now. No I was just using as an example I just meant in the event of a crash I just need to avoid sharp objects from clipping the frame and not worry about the normal impact from the crash. The only exception would be around a cable stop or a dropout that is bonded in. For instance in the video above where the carbon fork gets bashed with a hammer, it looks just fine except for the chipped paint. Somehow — and we're not precisely sure of the precise sequence of events — it seems that I managed to break the bike chain. Yep, that little line, under the ‘O’ is a crack caused by over tightening in a cycle carrier. We are your specialist for the repair of your carbon bicycle. Somehow — and we're not precisely sure of the precise sequence of events — it seems that I managed to break the bike chain. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete. Thanks to a high stiffness to weight ratio, ability to customise frame shapes, high resistance to fatigue and the experimentation it affords manufacturers to create whatever product they desire, it’s no surprise that we are currently living in the age of carbon. Is this a paint issue (the paint is thick and brittle) or should I be scared. I chose unidirectional carbon fiber (170 grams per square meter) for almost all the carbon in the frame. Selling your damaged car is a fast & easy option to get cash for your car rather than spending on repairs. Arghhh! I have just noticed this on the top of my saddle bar and where the seat post clamp is. Fatigue cracks will lessen the strength of the frame and will also reduce its stiffness, eventually causing failure. Repairs are stronger than the pre-damaged frame, add no measurable weight, and don’t alter the ride of the bike. Sure, I could easily add layers of the fabric to my frame, but I didn’t have any way to compress it. What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? But any damage, including to the paintwork, needs to be looked at. to break a cf frame you really have to smack the frame hard. Chilled Carbon. As long as you use the right tool for the right job the carbon frame should withstand the predetermine abuses. The heat treated frames found on heavy trucks were made from SAE 1027 modified. The tap thing only works on absolutely destroyed carbon. But like a steel or titanium frame, a carbon-fiber frame can sometimes be repaired. Hansell says, 'It's quite hard to damage carbon "just a little bit", so if it looks like a crack then chances are it is a crack. 10118777 “The fatigue tests that we run here are almost a matter of going through the motions,” said Chuck Texiera, a senior engineer at Specialized. 1. How long will a carbon frame last? Will the crack get excessively worse if i continue cycling on it? So, nobody got hurt, but his mum wanted me to check the frame, she was very sorry and apologized hundreds of times. Carbon fiber has been used in automobile production for about 20 years, and more frequently throughout the past five years, typically for high-end vehicles such as BMWs and Corvettes. Cracks and dents in other materials are typically easy to see, but fissures in carbon fiber often hide beneath the paint. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. They are the same as any other metals. Page 2 of 3 - CRACK IN CARBON FRAME - posted in Tech Q&A: I've had a small accident on my carbon road bike. |. Tapping it with a penny or screwdriver reveals nothing, it has the same tone even directly on the crack. Carbon fiber vinyl film is available in rolls or sheets. It was replaced under warranty. When carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture. Matt Appleman of Appleman Cycles repairs a carbon frame. Looks like a wrinkle in the finishing layer of the layup. When carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls. Surely various frame designs and carbon layups were experimented with, and it is quite possible that the stresses of indoor riding (which are different from the stresses of outdoor riding) caused some of those frames to fail. Crack in paint on carbon frame - better pics. 2. most carbon fibre frames come with a life time guarantee so might be a Chance of getting it replaced by the manufacturer. Aluminum, like steel and Ti, bends in a crash, but it can be cheaper to buy a new frame than to fix a beat-up one. Mud is soft and squishy - unlikely to break anything. Not sure how this has happened. Steel is even more bomber and easy to fix. As production methods improved, these issues have been resolved. A stress crack may not be repairable at all, and I'm not sure I would trust it in any case on the BB. The broken chain then got it… Certainly didn't put me off carbon, I replaced with another carbon road bike and since got a hardtail in the same material. Carbon fiber recycled from a car isn't strong enough to be used in building another car. It is Hexcel GAO 45, nominally 4.5 ounces per square yard. Is it possible to crack a Carbon frame in a cycle carrier? That's a big issue. Carbon frames are made from sheets of fabric cut and glued together in layers. It’s been a few months and with consistent riding, the crack … Problem is that without x-ray or ultrasound inspection of the part, you don't know if the layers have delaminated or if there's a massive internal fracture in the part. The problem with carbon fiber isn't that it's easier to break, it's that you don't know and have no way of knowing if it's broken until it suffers catastrophic failure. (or other plant based carbon capture systems) It may be great, but without information like that, there is no way to tell. Some cracks are merely cracks in the paint. He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed. Repairing a Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frame: One fine morning I was riding up the mountain and I guess I was pedaling too hard or something. Bicycles don’t have motors or batteries. Subscribe to this blog. It's a myth that carbon can't be repaired. (and include the capital cost of a non-carbon source of that power). Check for cracks. mtbr member Reputation: Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 2,008. A small crack or defect on the carbon frame is not a total loss. Plenty of carbon fiber for a few more repairs. Otherwise to me, those do not appear to be problems. The obvious first question is by what metrics this is better than trees. Repairs are stronger than the pre-damaged frame, add no measurable weight, and don’t alter the ride of the bike. Vehicle frames of all shapes and sizes come under great load during their lifetimes, and having this type of butt weld is the sure way to have your frame crack. And since it's internal how are you going to know where to look for it? Perhaps it is scenarios like this that the perception of ‘weak carbon’ is coming from? In my “subjective” experience, cold cycling (leaving it in the garage over the winter) a carbon frame can cause damage. That’s costly, so it pays to start with a bit of common sense. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material.

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